Environment and Climate News Podcast

Join Sterling Burnett of The Heartland Institute as he delves into the critical intersection of climate policy and energy independence. This three-part series examines “Top 10 Climate and Energy Action Items for President Trump in His Second Term,” exploring the challenges posed by green energy policies under the Biden administration.

From the impacts of the Paris Climate Accords to the future of oil and gas leasing, Burnett provides thought-provoking insights on maintaining affordable, reliable energy for all Americans. Whether you're passionate about climate policy or seeking clarity on energy debates, this podcast unpacks the issues with expert analysis and actionable ideas.

Stay informed with Environment and Climate News—your resource for discussions that shape the future of energy and the environment.

Creators & Guests

Host
H. Sterling Burnett
H. Sterling Burnett, Ph.D., hosts The Heartland Institute’s Environment and Climate News podcast. Burnett also is the director of Heartland’s Arthur B. Robinson Center on Climate and Environmental Policy, is the editor of Heartland's Climate Change Weekly email, and oversees the production of the monthly newspaper Environment & Climate News. Prior to joining The Heartland Institute in 2014, Burnett worked at the National Center for Policy Analysis for 18 years, ending his tenure there as senior fellow in charge of environmental policy. He has held various positions in professional and public policy organizations within the field. Burnett is a member of the Environment and Natural Resources Task Force in the Texas Comptroller’s e-Texas commission, served as chairman of the board for the Dallas Woods and Water Conservation Club, is a senior fellow at the Texas Public Policy Foundation, works as an academic advisor for Collegians for a Constructive Tomorrow, is an advisory board member to the Cornwall Alliance, and is an advisor for the Energy, Natural Resources and Agricultural Task Force at the American Legislative Exchange Council.

What is Environment and Climate News Podcast ?

The Heartland Institute podcast featuring scientists, authors, and policy experts who take the non-alarmist, climate-realist position on environment and energy policy.

H. Sterling Burnett:

This is the Heartland Daily Podcast.

Terry Lowry:

Top 10 climate and energy action items for president Trump in his second term. Climate expert doctor Sterling Burnett joins us discussing those top 10 climate and energy action recommendations for incoming president Trump. He He has an op ed by that name, and we've got it linked in the overview right now at terrylawrey.com. Sterling Burnett, PhD, is the managing editor, environment and climate news at the Heartland Institute. Find them at heartland dotorg.

Terry Lowry:

Doctor Burnett, welcome once again.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Thanks for having me on again, Terry.

Terry Lowry:

Since the early 1900, has affordable and reliable energy benefited, can I say, all Americans?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, I would I would think it did, but, I mean, there may be some people who, you know, some, some some, Luddites, some people who live off the grid that don't think of it as a benefit, Just like there's some people that probably think, you know, some some peacemics that, don't believe in even defend, you know, self defense that think military is a bad thing. So I won't speak for everyone, but I think most people, the vast majority of people, it's safe to say.

Terry Lowry:

Well, it did. Electricity. About 10 years ago, I I had a supporter, had a, I think, 6th or 7th grader and and, over coffee one time. His daughter was there, and we discussed energy making America great. And and she didn't understand why we both agreed with that statement, energy makes America great.

Terry Lowry:

And so I gave her a little project. In fact, I think she came on the radio. We recorded a you know, I had her get up one day and write down everything that she used or touched or ate that had an energy element. Like and I said, when you got out of bed, did you put on house shoes or shoes? Well, probably had some oil products in the shoes.

Terry Lowry:

Did you take a shower? Yeah. Well, was the water hot? Well, of course. How did you heat it?

Terry Lowry:

Oh, and we just went throughout the day. So even if they're off the grid, I'd like to go into their abode and see if there's any nails, any what whatever, because I'm sure they don't have a cabin that's totally, petroleum product missing. What would you say?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Yeah. I mean, look. Even if, say, someone lived in isolation in the cabin, if they have running water, the faucets themselves are made of, metal and plastic. The piping that goes into their house and from the let's say, it's an underground aquifer, unless it, you know, they use lead pipes. I guess they could use lead pipes.

H. Sterling Burnett:

The old ones, they did.

Terry Lowry:

Well, they had it had to be

H. Sterling Burnett:

Copper smelted. Lead is smelted. Yeah.

Terry Lowry:

Coal, probably,

H. Sterling Burnett:

or or wood. Yeah. You using coal. Whatever pumps the water up operates on some form of energy, likely fossil fuels. Usually, they have but they have diesel generators.

H. Sterling Burnett:

They could use solar generators, I guess, but those are made using fossil fuels.

Terry Lowry:

That's right. That's right. So so I You can't get away from it. I I wanted I wanted to start with this because I I have found that it's like someone getting off the couch couch at dusk and going over and turning a knob or flipping a switch to put on a night a light at night, or finding the clicker and changing the channel, or turning the TV on. We just are so accustomed to electricity being there, we don't think about it.

Terry Lowry:

But has Biden's energy policy over the policies, plural, over the last 4 years? Has his policies reduced the affordability and reliability of energy to the detriment of okay. I won't say all Americans, but to the detriment of the vast majority of Americans.

H. Sterling Burnett:

It has made America's power grid, and it has made America's transportation system less reliable and more expensive. Biden has exacerbated problems that were created under Obama, under even the second Bush, to a lesser extent under the first Bush and Clinton. But Biden's policies were anti domestic energy on steroids. Our grids people are suffering more blackouts across the country now than they've ever suffered before since we had a modern electric grid created. They are paying higher prices now than they've ever paid before even as they add ever more wind and solar to the system, which the Biden administration claims is cheaper than the than the fuels they're replacing.

H. Sterling Burnett:

But if it's cheaper, why is the power bill more expensive? Because it's not cheap. And if it's as good, then why is the power grid collapsing? Why are there more blackouts or brownouts now than ever before? Why in California can they basically start warning at the beginning of summer, prepare for brownouts?

H. Sterling Burnett:

And they tell you to drive electric cars, but then they tell you not to charge those electric cars.

Terry Lowry:

The hypocrisy is never ending. Our guest, Sterling Burnett, PhD, D, is the managing editor, environment and climate news at the Heartland Institute. Sterling, recently on your website, you you printed or or or listed posted an article, the top 10 climate and energy action items for president Trump. Doctor Sterling Burnett is our guest with the Heartland Institute. We are now gonna review, an article that was on their homepage, top ten climate and energy action items for president Trump in his second term.

Terry Lowry:

Doctor Burnett, welcome back.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Thanks for having me again, Terry. I always enjoy it.

Terry Lowry:

K. 1st, the Paris Climate Accord, they had their, committee on partners or whatever the COP stands for, COP 29, major leaders around the world who never would have missed 1, you know, did not go to COP 29, back in November. But is that just an agreement amongst parties that the US is obligated to, or is it really a treaty that was never ratified?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, two things. The COP grew out of what's called the United Nations framework convention on climate change. That was a treaty, and that was signed by, president George, Herbert Walker Bush, the first Bush, and it was ratified by the senate. So we are a party to the UN conference of the parties. But that was the first treaty, and and and they have had multiple agreements since then.

H. Sterling Burnett:

And we have not ratified a single agreement since then, including the Paris Climate Agreement. That's why we call it climate agreement. Biden Obama said it was just an executive, agreement, so the senate didn't have to ratify it. Now, of course, an executive agreement isn't binding like a treaty. And, even the treaty even the agreement itself says, well, these are things that countries have to do, but they have to come up with their own plans and everything.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, Trump got us out of it, but under the terms of the agreement, it took from he from the day he signed it, we weren't out for 3 years. And then by the time he you know, his first term of office ended, Biden got us back in. Now Trump had ended on day 1. Because the second time we get out, it happens immediately. He can kill it for all time if he then submits it to the senate for ratification, because there are not a 2 thirds majority in the senate that would agree to this treaty.

H. Sterling Burnett:

There may be a majority, but they're not 2 thirds needed for the treaty for treaty.

Terry Lowry:

So we can't So we can kill it. We can kill it.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Come back. No future president can then just put us right back in it if the senate takes it up, if it's if it's submitted to them. Even if they don't act, if it's before the senate, no future president can enact it because it's now before the senate, and they've gotta make their decision.

Terry Lowry:

Before we move on, let me ask this, doctor Burnette. Has America obligated itself to reduce this so called pollutant that so called pollutant while China, Peru, India, other major countries, major polluters have waved their nose at it and walked away?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, yes and no. We a, I I won't I won't concede that c o two is pollution.

Terry Lowry:

That's right.

H. Sterling Burnett:

So so, regardless of what we do or what China does or anybody, nobody's polluting by putting out c o 2. 2nd, we have enacted policies that would coincide with the Paris Climate Agreement. But even China and India and all the others that you talked have signed on to the agreement. Why? Once again, I point out.

H. Sterling Burnett:

The agreement sets terms for countries to decide for themselves what to do. And China said, we will peak emissions. We expect to peak emissions in 2050. They didn't say they were gonna cut emissions. They said that their emissions will no longer rise.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, peak at what level? If it's double their current levels, they'll be emitting more than half of all the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. India, likewise, has said we expect to peak emissions and then reduce thereafter. So they're all party to the agreement, but every country has its own emissions schemes that they've agreed to. We've said we would cut our emissions 80% by 2050.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Europe, likewise. But not every country has the same emissions reductions demands.

Terry Lowry:

Do American consumers want electric vehicles shoved down their throats?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, no. It's clear that they don't. They have stated in poll after poll that they don't. In survey after survey, they elected, Republicans in this last election. Almost every one of whom said, if not every one of them, and I think they all did, said they would get rid of the EV mandate that Biden, pushed.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Now Biden says it's not a mandate. All he said was, no. No. No. It's not a mandate.

H. Sterling Burnett:

It's just that the standard we set are so high, nothing but electric vehicles can meet it.

Terry Lowry:

Okay. It's Nothing but electric vehicles

H. Sterling Burnett:

can meet it.

Terry Lowry:

What is the definition of is? Is it a force mandate or, the manufacturers cannot make combustion engine cars? But but we gotta move on. Gotta move on. So the top ten things that president Trump should do to make energy more affordable, more reliable, because we have abundant sources in America, Should all spending for green energy projects be frozen, eliminated, or taken off the books and spent someplace else?

H. Sterling Burnett:

The all the spending contained in the Inflation Reduction Act and the production tax credit for wind and solar should end. We've been told for for 10 years that they're cost competitive, that they're cheaper, that that they were, a, they were they were virgin industries. They were new orphan industries, and they needed a helping hand to get started. But about 10 years ago, they said, no. No.

H. Sterling Burnett:

No. They're competitive now. Okay. Then you don't need a helping hand. If you can compete, you don't need a helping hand.

H. Sterling Burnett:

So end it. What you'd find is wind and solar would collapse the the following day. Manufacturing would stop because they're not competitive, and they can't be, constructed competitively.

Terry Lowry:

Okay. Okay.

H. Sterling Burnett:

That would that would change a lot.

Terry Lowry:

We'll keep

H. Sterling Burnett:

some coal power plants online that that, are otherwise planned for shuttering. Our oceans would be free from offshore wind farms that are killing whales and other marine wildlife that are, blocking, fishing commercial fishing that are endangering, actually, national security. So a lot of good things would happen just from that alone.

Terry Lowry:

What would it take for Trump to be able to do that? Can an executive order, do it? But if it's an executive order, could the next president undo it? So how do we accomplish any of the top ten in the first, say, 100 days?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, some of the things he could do with executive orders, because they were done with executive orders. Some of the things he has to go through the normal regulatory process to, his agencies would have to go through a review period. They'd have to make a public notice of new regulations. They'd have to take data, and they'd have to have hearing. And some of the things would need to be done through legislation.

H. Sterling Burnett:

So it's a mix.

Terry Lowry:

Okay. Alright. Vincent to

H. Sterling Burnett:

get done through executive orders are pretty important, but any executive order can like you said, next president comes along, he changes, he or she changes the policy. So, as much of it can be done through regulations and legislation. You know, one thing you could do immediately to stop a lot of the bad stuff that Biden has already enacted through regulations, almost every one of his policies almost every one of his policies has been challenged in court by attorneys generals from states. Some of them by more than half the states. And right now, Biden is fighting all for all of those rules in courts.

H. Sterling Burnett:

But Trump could direct his justice department to say, we will no longer defend these rules.

Terry Lowry:

So by default, the states that have sued for the flea flick and flea fly or the salamander or whatever, they would win by default? Because Well, you would think

H. Sterling Burnett:

the court would then say the court could could, appoint sort of, a person to represent the federal interest on its own. But with the current court's makeup, my suspicion is what they'd say is no one's here defending this rule. We've got to assume that the rule is wrong and not worth defending. States have made a compelling case. The feds aren't fighting it, so we fine for the plaintiffs.

Terry Lowry:

Okay. Alright. Let's go through some more of the 10, top 10 climate and energy action items that president Trump could take, should take, might take. 1, should oil and gas leasing on federal lands be resumed?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Look. This is one of those things where Biden just simply broke the law. He simply it wasn't a matter of discretion. There there are laws on the books that require lease sales every, set period of time. I think it's every quarter.

H. Sterling Burnett:

They have to offer, by law, quarterly lease sales, and Biden just canceled these. He just said, you know, I know what the law is. I don't care. Sue me. The courts will make a decision long after it's, already effective, but I don't care.

H. Sterling Burnett:

They've offered thousands of leases. But even once you have a lease, even when you made your payment, you still have to submit a plan. And so they've been sitting on thousands of plans. Trump Trump could turn it around in a minute. 1st, he could just start following the law as far as leases.

H. Sterling Burnett:

He could offer offshore lease sales. He could reverse what once again, an instance where Biden the Biden administration simply broke the law. For years, for decades, they have fought over a small portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge that was in law supposed to be set aside and allow oil and gas drilling. It never got done. But under Trump, Congress passed a law that provided for a small portion of the refuge to be opened up to oil and gas, and Trump offered the lease.

H. Sterling Burnett:

One of the first things that Biden did was to rescind it, despite the fact that the law said they had to issue it. So once again, everyone who thinks, oh, well, Biden follows well, we know we know what he did with his, pardoning his son. Right? But, he, on multiple occasions, and in in some instances, the court called him the carpet for it. He just broke the law.

H. Sterling Burnett:

And it's reminiscent of, of old Andrew Jackson way back when he shipped the Indians to Oklahoma, and the Supreme Court said, you can't do that. It's illegal. And he said, you know, in effect, airfreight is saying, mister justice, you've made your ruling. Now enforce it.

Terry Lowry:

They don't have an army, whereas he did. Well,

H. Sterling Burnett:

the the problem is the executive is supposed to be the one enforcing it.

Terry Lowry:

Franz, we do have a problem in Washington. Can president Trump just appoint pro oil and gas bureaucrats, in all the places where he can appoint and then have them clean house, or is the deep state so entrenched it will take several administrations?

H. Sterling Burnett:

Well, once again, that's one of those yes and no questions. Trump failed in the first term to drain the swamp, and the reason was he wasn't prepared. He didn't really understand the swamp, and it took him a long time to come up with his list of people he wanted to appoint. Not just to the top positions, but there are thousands of positions that the president's responsible for appointing underneath the top levels. Not all of them require, senate confirmation.

H. Sterling Burnett:

He just didn't have a list of people. He got ahead of the curve. He understood what he was up against this time, having lived through it. And so he has most of his major positions already chosen, and many of the under positions are chosen. So he will hit the ground running, and that means he will have the opportunity early on to make real differences.

H. Sterling Burnett:

That's not to say that a future president might turn it all around, but it will be harder for them to do so if he makes these changes early in his administration as opposed to late. Look. Everything Biden's doing right now, Biden's doing a lot of stuff in the last few days. But every regulation he passes right now, well, if it passes within 90 days of a new administration, the new executive can sign a law, can sign a bill, and end it. But anything that passed before the end is a lot more complicated process.

H. Sterling Burnett:

So if Trump gets stuff done early in his administration, it's gonna be much harder for future administrations to reverse it.

Terry Lowry:

We're out of time with our guest, Darlene Burnett, but I've gotta ask this last question because in the piece that you all, posted on your website that we're reviewing today has some paragraphs about the Reins Act. What is that, and why is it important? Reins, r

H. Sterling Burnett:

e I

Terry Lowry:

e n s.

H. Sterling Burnett:

That for me, that's the most important thing that Trump or any president could do. The congress has to act. It's called the regulations of the executive in need of scrutiny act, Reins. And what it is is to reign in regulations. Currently, congress passes broad laws, and they leave it to the administrative agencies to interpret those laws.

H. Sterling Burnett:

And when there's a conflict between what congress says they intended and what the admin what the executives come up with is congress has no say over stopping it. Or they do, but it's very, very difficult, and presidents have to sign off. And they rarely approve, bills overturning a regulation their administration wrote. So this would require congress to actually upfront. They pass a law.

H. Sterling Burnett:

The agency writes its regulations to enforce the law or to enact the law. It then has to go back to congress, and congress has to sign off on it if it's gonna have a certain, amount impact on the economy. I think it's a $100,000,000 from the economy. And if Congress did not does not explicitly approve of the regulation, then it goes back to the drawing board. It never becomes an act.

H. Sterling Burnett:

That would stop these things before they get out the door. It would place the responsibility on congress who who, by by by the constitution, is the sole law making authority, not the exception.

Terry Lowry:

Friends, we have spent several days reviewing oil and gas and other issues that faces that will be debated, cussed, and and discussed in Washington, DC. Pray for our leaders that they seek wisdom from above because their decisions affect you and me. Find our guest, sterlingburnett@heartland.org. Sterling, thanks for being with us.

H. Sterling Burnett:

Thanks for having me on again. I look forward to being on again in the future. Take care, sir.